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Apr 27 10 12:17 PM

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I assumed that mould marks would be a sure identifier, however, looking at two that are vintage and comparing them to the 40th, it's not quite as clear cut.
The mould marks on the vintage guns are on different sides to each other.  Makes sense, as there would have been many moulds on a tray.  I've got 4 vintage officer caps and the marks differ on those too. The top two are vintage, but you can see from the photo that it's the middle one that looks the odd one out. 
The 40th version has slightly sharper lines where they've cleaned the master copy up before producing a new mould.   Also, the plastic is a bit shinier on the repro, but that may be down to its youth.
Definately harder to spot than a 40th SLR.  The line around the base of the butt, which is deeper, seems to be the only give away.

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#2 [url]

Apr 27 10 4:52 PM

Great post Mat!  I too had been thinking it was going to be rather hard to spot 40th vs. vintage in a few years.  Seeing them side by side like this really helps, particularly with the butt score called out as the primary differentiator.

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#3 [url]

Jan 21 12 5:42 PM

Right,  I've an interesting query to add to this thread.    I bought a KAR-98 off ebay,  I won't name the seller because this may well be a genuine item.   ( The gun's at home right now,  I've been meaning to ask about this and the seller is breathing down my neck again about returning it so I've been prompted to look into the matter at last. )      The seller sent the rifle between 2 pieces of expanded polystyrene held together with sticky tape and sent it thus packed in a jiffy bag with 'FRAGILE!  DO NOT BEND!'  written on the front.   
       I reckon that was a blatant temptation to some mean-minded postal worker to give the jiffy bag the old 'fragility test'   ( I was a postie in the late 1980s so I have some inside knowledge ),  but maybe the jiffy bag simply ended up in a bad position in a stuffed mail sack and being dropped on a hard surface or having a heavy mail sack dumped on top did the damage.    Anyway it arrived snapped in two and the seller has refunded me and requested I return it.      When I was re-packing it,  I noticed that the inside of the rifle is a creamy colour plastic.    This suggests to me a resin.    That suggests to me it's 40th.    Would that be correct?      I'm off home now to check it against Mat's description.    

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#4 [url]

Jan 21 12 6:25 PM

It sounds like the plastic has 'bloomed' on the surface when snapped.  You know how some coloured plastics (when bent) go very light in colour where the bend is?  Is that the reason for the creamy coloured plastic?  Or are the brown parts painted?

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#5 [url]

Jan 22 12 2:35 PM

  I managed to find an original KAR-98 suitable for destruction and I snapped it in half.    It broke at the same point as the one through the post had broken at and to my surprise,  the plastic was the same colour inside.    I suppose it might be bloom as you say, Mat,  I know what you mean.       Then I compared my original to the one I've been sent,   the one I've been sent is a 40th.
       It's item number   230720558589  /  23  07  20  55  85  89  .     Mat,  thank you very much for your identification guide,  great work,   I just wonder how many 40th KAR-98s have passed into people's collections either through innocent ignorance or deliberate deception?      
          I told  'kingofthestuntmen'  yesterday that I was wondering if the one he sent me was a 40th because the plastic looked like a modern resin,  his reply was very terse and simply informs me that he's refunded me for it,  it's his property and to return it.    Reading between the lines,  the feeling I get is that it's no surprise to the seller.     But you folks draw your own conclusions,  on here for all intents and purposes this is just my opinion,  pure speculation.   

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#6 [url]

Jan 22 12 3:33 PM

hi mat the other thing it used to differ them  was the end of the barral ( not the sight end ) were the strap fit's on to the clip just above that theres a black line .. on the vintage its painted .....on the 40th DAK kar98 its brown ... but them when he did the trooter and trooper issue it was painted black .. so croc i say the only way to tell is  were mat pointed out   is the butt of the gun  thye grove is deeper on the 40th .. the one in the ebay number pic   is 40th dak ,, gun  and it ruffed up to maker it vintage looking

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#9 [url]

Jan 22 12 8:34 PM

This is the trouble with 40th stuff and dealers where's there money to be made there's always a con I've been dooped a few times with actionman items I've had football items that have been dyed reflocked heads being sold as original I find your learning all the time but with out doing your homework you can get done I once went to a toy fare in brum and there was a guy selling a original doll with a 40th Argyll uniform I said to him how much and he said 120 all original I then smiled and said pull the other one and he says you know your stuff then and tried to make a joke of it but if I was new to the scene he would have gladly took my money that's the greatness of this forum we are learning all the time it's helped me so many times keep up the good work everyone

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#10 [url]

Jan 22 12 9:17 PM

i have to say .. in all fairness  the 40th range ....is got to be the worsed thing thats even happend to action man ..even worse than them closing in  84..

it was a fab  thought .. but the aftermath .. if only they had marked them .. and none of this crap would be happening

well done AH  ..sad

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